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We Want You To Create Webinars


Chris Butler: Welcome to the Newfangled Agency Marketing Matters podcast, I’m Chris Butler.

Lauren Siler: I’m Lauren Siler.

Mark O’Brien: And I’m Mark O’Brien.

Chris Butler: And we’re here on a beautiful afternoon in Chapel Hill in the back of the Newfangled headquarters drinking wine, actually. Mark has provided some wine. Also, you’re looking very strangely at the levels.

Mark O’Brien: I’m watching the level to see, so …I’m very cognizant of my voice being quite on the other one, so I’m trying to make sure that I’m as loud as possible.

Lauren Siler: As you’re speaking you are decreasing in volume.

Mark O’Brien: I never have to work at being loud …

Lauren Siler: That’s true.

Mark O’Brien: I work at being quiet, this is the first time in my life I’ve ever had to try and be loud, and I’m just not used to that.

Chris Butler: I said that Mark could be on this episode if he would learn to speak like a professional. That actually didn’t happen.

Mark O’Brien: Story at length is tonight’s our quarterly dinner. Every quarter we have this 90-day company thing that we just talk about sometime … Have we talked about that yet? That would be a cool thing to talk about. We have a 90-day company thing, and part of that is having a quarterly dinner where all of Newfangled and significant others, et cetera come out and have dinner at our office, which features a nice, big kitchen, and we have a bunch of wine for that. We figured we might as well get into that wine a little early while we’re doing our podcast so …

Chris Butler: It’s a good idea, it’s the end of the day.

Mark O’Brien: It’s a nice little glass of rose.

Chris Butler: Yeah, we’ve got stuff to talk about …

Lauren Siler: It’s quite pretty, too.

Chris Butler: It’s actually … I was interested in the cap, actually.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, yeah, me too.

Mark O’Brien: Yeah, it’s a glass cap.

Chris Butler: Yeah, it’s nice. None of this has anything to do with what we want to talk about today. We will follow our normal format, we’d like to share with you guys some things that we’re finding interesting, exciting, inspiring, and then we’ll get into our topic and then we’ll close out with some recommendations. So, who would like to go first?

Lauren Siler: I’ll go first this time. We’ve mentioned the Two Bobs podcast, I think maybe twice already on this podcast, so that’s the podcast between David Baker of ReCourses, and Blair Enns of Win Without Pitching, and it’s a great podcast, you should check it out, but I was quite intrigued by one of their more recent episodes, called How Much Should You Write? This is a question that I get a lot from clients when they are considering investing in their content marketing, and a question I get a lot is, can I pay my way out of this? Can I take the shortcut of paying somebody else to write about what my firm is an expert in?

Undoubtedly there’s some back and forth, and I’ve always tried to encourage the agency to find a way and try and work with the agency to find a way to make time in their day to day business to be the ones expressing their expertise. I also found that I started softening on that a little bit, I started getting pushed on that, and they would come up with these reasons like, “Oh well we have this contact that used to work for us, so they know, they understand us, they understand the voice.” Or, “We can hire this technical writer, and we feel like that they can express the expertise pretty well.” Whatever it may be, they would kind of debate.

One of the … This podcast that David and Blair were talking about, there were a number of reasons that they talk about the reasons that firms should write, and they talk about their own experience with developing expertise and their own journeys with content marketing, and it’s all really interesting. One point that comes up again and again that you just can’t get around is that writing makes you smarter. I think we all know this, and we talk about this, but every time I revisit this concept, I’m reinvigorated by content marketing, and it’s a passion of mine anyway, and I really love it, but the idea that you are going to advance your own skill set, and advance your own knowledge, and your own expertise just by virtue of expressing it. That … I love that, and I think shuts down any argument of paying your way out of it.

It’s really important, it’s vital, actually to the health of your business, and to your continued education and your space.

Chris Butler: Yeah, I listened to the same episode and thought it was great. Blair shares some expertise around himself in terms of content creation, and rules he gave himself for how often he had to write that kind of thing, and what’s worked and what hasn’t. But I think you’re right that the more you express yourself, express your expertise, the smarter you get. If that’s true for writing, I think it’s also true for what we’re doing right here, which is talking about these ideas, and this is the same thing, we’re just not sitting with an editor and writing it down. It’s a little bit different, but I think we were learning from it, too.

That I think is a good segue to what I wanted to share, which is a podcast that is being created by a client of ours called Crux Collaborative. They’re a user experience consultancy, and they’ve been doing podcasts for a few months now. Their podcast is called the Crux of It, it’s ten minute episodes, that’s it, just one topic, ten minutes. It’s a great podcast. I had an opportunity to speak them over the phone about it a couple of weeks ago, and in prep for that I listened to all the episodes, and really enjoyed.

The purpose for me was to listen to it and give them some feedback, and help them think about what they were doing next, but it’s actually just a really good podcast, I really recommend it, especially for our audience. They’re talking about things like user research and prototyping and design patters, really deep stuff that I think is going to be relevant to you all listening, and they do it really well. One thing that I was really impressed with is they had an episode, a couple episodes ago, called Not Your Father’s Forms, and it’s all about form design, but they’re thinking of it from a sociological perspective, and they’re talking about how the information that you ask for has to take into account social change. They’re talking about the ways we identify ourselves, conventions around sexual identification, gender, all that kind of stuff, and it’s a really deep conversation within that ten minute limit.

I’d really recommend it, it’s at and it’s called the Crux of It.

Mark O’Brien: This is odd, because mine’s also a podcast, we don’t organize these things …

Chris Butler: No.

Mark O’Brien: We all pick our own thing and this time …

Chris Butler: Well, we have this spread sheet that none of us ever look at.

Mark O’Brien: Yeah, well I did put my name, but just a few hours ago. We don’t collaborate on that part of this segment. We don’t collaborate on, but yeah, mine’s a podcast also and it is the Exponential Wisdom podcast that is done by Peter Diamandis and Dan Sullivan, and Dan Sullivan the guy’s that founded the strategic coach program that has come up in this podcast various times. I’m a member of that, I love that, it’s had a huge influence on Newfangled.

He does this podcast with Peter Diamandis, and I feel like when I listen tot hat podcast that I get an unfair advantage in that I know the future and most people don’t know the future. The way they talk … It’s all about the future, really. The way they talk about it, is so convincing. I think they’re just good at being convincing. They paint a very believable portrait of the near future, and it’s not a dystopian future, it’s a positive future, it’s about the opportunities. It’s about the opportunities that will be present in the future.

Every time I listen to it I feel like … I can just listen to it for three minutes even … I always listen to the whole thing, but I could just listen three minutes and my mind would be on the right track in terms of thinking about where does Newfangled? Where do we actually need to go to play to the rules of 2021, even, it’s not that far off. They’re talking about big things, about … For example, children in the age of my children between three and nine never owning a car in their lives, maybe never having a license, things like that. Real game changer concepts that are right around the corner for us, and every time I listen to it I’m completely inspired and thinking about very different things I wouldn’t normally think about in the day to day context. It’s also a great conversation material, because it’s controversial.

Chris Butler: Yeah, that’s what this is all about, I mean, we have gathered here today to talk about a particular type of content we want you all to be creating regularly in a certain way, but I think something that, Mark, you just said hit to me that, if you do this content right it should be just as pleasurable as what you described consuming it.

Mark O’Brien: Right.

Chris Butler: We know that that’s true, we know that people who watch our webinars, our client’s webinars, I had just mentioned a client’s podcast. It’s educational, it’s important, it helps me do my work better, but it’s also a pleasure to experience and that’s really, really important. The fact that you spent … How long are these podcasts?

Mark O’Brien: They’re between 20 and 60 minutes each.

Chris Butler: Yeah, and you’re getting enjoyment out of it, but you’re getting inspiration, and also it’s … Coach concept is that as a leader of a firm it’s your job to be creating future value, and that’s … Sounds like that’s what it’s helping you do, thinking about that future, visualizing it, and then figuring out, okay well what’s my role in between now and then?

Mark O’Brien: And it’s got nothing to do with marketing, I think that’s important, too.

Chris Butler: Yeah.

Mark O’Brien: At all. They’re not in or of this industry in any way, but we’re really working in the real world, it’s got everything to do with that. It’s nice to that it’s completely outside of our space, too.

Chris Butler: Yeah.

Mark O’Brien: It’s helpful.

Chris Butler: So I alluded to the content … Webinars, we’re going to talk about webinars, and Mark, you are the captain of our webinars. Just so you all know, our content program sprawls enough and isn’t challenged enough that we’ve identified captains within our team to head up each piece of content, and Mark has been doing webinars for Newfangled for what, a decade now?

Mark O’Brien: No, not quite, since ’09.

Chris Butler: Okay, close.

Mark O’Brien: I distinctly remember fretting over the cost of the go-to webinar license in 2009. It was cheap and gosh it’s been a bargain at ten times the price since then, just in terms of what we got out of it. But we started it in earnest in ’09 and we did them monthly for the first six to twelve months. That was very ambitious.

Chris Butler: But you did it.

Mark O’Brien: Yeah, we did it for a good long while, and moved to quarterly, and then we tried paid. We’ve gone through all kinds of different things with webinars, and we’ve learned a lot, but what we’ve found is that they’re invaluable part of our content marketing arsenal.

Lauren Siler: In terms of framing the discussion today about webinars, what I think would be valuable is if we could talk a little bit about the value of webinars in a content plan. Why they’re important. Why we think they’re valuable. How to think about them from a strategic standpoint. But, then also shift gears into the more tactical side of it. How do you pull one off? What are the must haves and what are the negotiables, and what are the technical considerations?

Chris Butler: What works and what doesn’t? Yup.

Mark O’Brien: Okay, so should we start with the benefits?

Chris Butler: Yeah, big picture. What’s your pitch? What’s the webinar pitch?

Mark O’Brien: The pitch, yeah. I just gave the webinar pitch. We should say that we have nothing to gain or lose by pitching webinars.

Chris Butler: No.

Lauren Siler: No, we believe in them.

Mark O’Brien: Yeah, we believe in them.

Lauren Siler: We’ve seen them work for a number of clients.

Mark O’Brien: This is good business. So the pitch is that with webinars, it’s just hard to get more bang for your buck in terms of the time investment. We can look at it from a promotional and engagement perspective when the webinar is first … When the announcement is published on the site, we’ve got all sorts of communications leading up to the webinar, including the day of the webinar, and the follow up communications, so there are about five different emails that go out around the webinar specifically. So, that’s a lot of touch points right there. They’re legitimate excuses to email somebody, right? It’s five if you actually subscribe to the webinar, if you don’t subscribe to the webinar you’re not going to get five emails about the thing, but if you do register for the webinar … The given webinar, you’ll get about that many communications. So, that’s great.

Another thing about it is the touch points, the actual webinar itself is very engaging, because you’re listening to somebody, sometimes you’re seeing them speaking, you’re also seeing a screen, and it’s an hour long. It’s very immersive of all the content marketing topics that we get into, it’s as multimedia as we get, or as most firms are likely to get with their content marketing platform.

Chris Butler: Right and you recommend an hour, it’s not that that’s implicitly required?

Mark O’Brien: Not at all, right. It’s also live engagement, right? You’ve got Q & A, which on article you can have comments, but we’ve seen that hardly anybody uses that anymore, and even the firms that have it, there’s not a whole lot of engagement there typically. It used to be a big proponents of comments, but we’ve sort of gotten off that.

Chris Butler: Well they’ve kind of died.

Mark O’Brien: They’ve just died, yeah. They were great while they lasted, but they’ve died. But with webinar, the Q & A session is alive and well, and anybody could ask any question, and you also have editing ability, you don’t have to answer every question you can choose, which ones you’d like to answer.

Lauren Siler: It’s true, and I can recall many webinars that we’ve had now where the Q & A session has been just as, if not more valuable, than the prepared remarks.

Mark O’Brien: Right.

Chris Butler: Yeah, the people asking questions are giving you content to work with later on, and immediately so. One reason why I think Q & A works better than comments or you end up getting more value, is because it’s safer. If you attend a webinar, you’re in an enclosed group of people who decided to be there together and you can ask that question without worrying … Well, it’s also anonymous … Without worrying about looking like a fool. But if you have to log into a website and publicly ask your question … Not going to happen.

Lauren Siler: It also serves as really valuable persona research.

Chris Butler: Yeah.

Mark O’Brien: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right.

Lauren Siler: Whereas, a comment can be … I don’t know, there are a lot of comments that are pointless commentary on what was going on or not all that valuable, but the Q & A sessions in a webinar they tend to be really great insight into … Oh that’s what … That’s where these people are going when they’re thinking about this particular concept. This is the road they’re going down, these are the types of questions they’re asking. And that definitely can inform future pieces of content.

Mark O’Brien: And that also speaks to the marketing data aspect of it, when you do a webinar other people who subscribe … You then get a report within minutes of the webinar being completed. Who attended, who paid what level of attention. They basically see how many minutes the actually webinar screen is the live screen on their desktop, and use that as an attention indicator. Which questions they asked, and things like that. You can also do polls within the webinar, which we used to do a lot, but I found them distracting, so I stopped doing that. You get a lot of data immediately from the webinar, and that, if you have the right set up … We’ve got Act-on and Salesforce tied, so as soon as that … And GoTo Meeting is set, all of that … So as soon as that attendee information is available it goes right into Act-on, or right into Salesforce. That becomes part of the lead record in Salesforce. Not only the fact that they attended but what questions they asked and all the rest, which is really kind of amazing.

So there’s a huge amount of data you get from a given webinar. That’s a unique asset from a webinar, and also then the transcript. An hour long webinar is roughly 10 thousand words of transcribed content, and our best practice is to take that transcription and put it on the webinar page on the site, and have that fairly open and indexible, so that’s 10 thousand words from indexible content, but then people need to convert if they want to watch the webinar, which leads to another benefit of the webinar, which is the fact that it’s two things. It’s a live event, and that’s really cool, it’s an event that you have to show up for on time, that’s the only content marketing editing element like that, it happens once and then it’s gone.

Then you can go there after the fact to, not participate in it, but to view the recorded event, that is a point of engagement on the site forever more. We’ve found that individual points of engagement are expensive in terms of time, the only other valid one that we see regularly is a white paper. Every one of those webinars you put up on your site, is another engagement point leads to conversion magic through progressive profiling and all the rest.

Chris Butler: Yeah, webinars are kind of like the Seinfeld of content marketing, it’s like you turn on the cable TV at any given time of the day, Seinfeld’s on somewhere. This is true, it’s your content and syndication. You get … It’s like if you were able to give a public talk somewhere, but it be in syndication forever and ever and ever, and that’s another point, I don’t know if you were about to make …

Lauren Siler: Go for it.

Chris Butler: I think that doing … If you haven’t gotten out in the public speaking circuit in any way or any kind and you’re interested in that, this is a great way to get ready for that. If you haven’t done much public speaking, do webinars first and you’ll get some training. Is that what you were going to say?

Lauren Siler: No, actually.

Chris Butler: Oh okay, good.

Mark O’Brien: The inverse of that to just touch on that while that’s fresh is the opposite, if you are a public speaker then you got 99% of what you need to do a webinar.

Chris Butler: Right, that’s very true.

Mark O’Brien: The prep is exactly the same. What makes a good talk in public makes a good webinar. The rules for slides are all the same rules. Every single rule is the same, except for your movement on stage, that’s the only rule that doesn’t really pertain. But even there, we’ve done a lot of video lately with webinars where … With the one we just did with Blair, which I’ll be referencing I think at the end of this podcast. There were no slides, it was just Blair and me talking, and that was the entire content and it was really well received, and it was actually a record setting webinar for us. It can be quite simple, I guess it gets into what you want to talk about … The logistics, right?

Lauren Siler: Yeah, and I do. I think that point is an important one, which is that webinars can be more flexible than I think a lot of people give them credit for. I think a lot of agencies and a lot of clients that we work with that first consider getting into this are intimidated by it because it seems like this mountain that they have to climb in terms of the type of content it is, and that it’s more advanced than maybe they … Than they’re prepared for, it’s going to take much more time than any other type of other content that they would choose to pursue.

I just don’t necessarily … I don’t think that that’s necessarily true, I think that it can be flexible in terms of … You could have a prepared slide deck, and you could invest a lot of time into that, and make it more of a classic presentation. But you, and another thought later from your firm, or you can invite in guests can go and be on video and talk about something with a lot of depth and a lot of clarity, and that can be really engaging and interesting for your audience as well.

Chris Butler: Yeah, I like that you threw out a bunch of ideas there about ways that you could diversify your approach. Doesn’t just have to be your voice, you could bring out a guest, you could do a live video, you could bring in a bunch of collaborators within your firm. And we’ve done all those things.

Mark O’Brien: We have.

Chris Butler: When we were talking about this idea I mentioned, and I think this is true, that our best performing webinars have been the ones where we’ve brought in outside guests.

Mark O’Brien: Right.

Chris Butler: In one case we brought in a few agency principles with whom we had worked to talk about their experience over the last few years changing their marketing program, and that was our best performing webinar up until that point.

Then most recently with Blair Enns and in both cases I think bringing in an outside voice, being able to have a natural conversation with that person requires a lot less prep, and sometimes draws out even more gold than it would have if you did it on your own, because that person … You’re responding to that person, you don’t know what they’re going to say. They’re drawing things out from you, it’s more natural. And the person listening feels like they’re getting an inside scoop. They want to be a fly on a wall.

Lauren Siler: I think the point about it feeling natural is also a good one. We were speaking with a client just about an hour ago and one of the things we were talking to them about their content marketing and one of the things that they brought up … And this wasn’t with regards to webinars, but I think that the point still holds, which was, that they know what they want to express, they have the expertise, and when they talk about it, they are communicating in one style, but the second that they go to write it, it … That personality changes and that voice changes and there’s a disconnect between who they are and who they want to portray, and then how they are when the enter a more formalized context.

Having more flexibility in the webinar setting where you’re actually just having a conversation with somebody who you know well about a topic that you understand very well, can come across as more authentic.

Chris Butler: Yeah. Go ahead, Lauren.

Mark O’Brien: The other thing to know is just the first format you mentioned, Lauren, which is the internal group webinar where you bring a bunch of all leaders from inside the company. And we’ve done a lot of that, and that offers the same benefit as the external voice in that you’re conveying multiple personalities, and people kind of feed off each other, and the prep is really, really easy.

Now we do collaborative white papers as well, but the webinars again convey more personality because of all the different writing styles, it’s just much easier to recognize a different speaking style and adhere to that or to attune … Or to build an attachment to that and different people of course have different attachments to different people … Male, female, different styles, that kind of thing. With a webinar, if you’re going to bring on two to four people from your firm, you’re going to convey a much broader perspective.

Chris Butler: So it’s a lot like this, actually, a lot like the podcast in that you can bring a group of people on, have a natural conversation and it can be kind of magical in some ways. I’m curious though, we wanted to talk a little bit about practical stuff. What are the dos and don’ts? What worked? What’s not? What do you want to tell people to avoid that we’ve learned through experience?

Lauren Siler: We’ve given the advice in the past about being too precious with your gated content, we’ve talked about that within the context of white papers, and I think that that’s also applicable to the idea of webinars. Not that you should be careless with it, or not put any thought into it, but I do believe that the medium is more forgiving than a lot of people believe that it is.

Would you guys agree with that?

Mark O’Brien: Yeah. I think that once you learn how to play to it, it is. But that first you’re doing a webinar, and you’re talking into a screen and you have no idea who’s on the other side, or if you’re actually even broadcasting or not … My worst webinar memory was …

Lauren Siler: That’s what we should have opened with …

Mark O’Brien: We can just talk about that, yeah.

Lauren Siler: Worst webinar memories.

Mark O’Brien: It’s real, it’s happened. Webinars can be scary and intimidating and I remember one when I was in my office at the old office, which had a wooden door … No glass or anything. I was five minutes into, what I thought was a broadcast, and I believe you slid a note under the door saying, “Nothing’s happening. Did you start yet?”

Chris Butler: Right.

Mark O’Brien: And I had already gone through the entire intro of the webinar! People had just been witnessing dead air, it’s like radio, the worst possible thing is dead air. That was really scary, and that’s one thing about webinars that is different, it’s live for you, but you can’t see the audience and that’s very strange. It takes a while to get used to that.

Chris Butler: And there’s some technical issues there, and you are at the mercy of the webinar toy you’ve chosen. Let’s say you chose Go To Webinar, or something like that …

Mark O’Brien: I would highly recommend.

Chris Butler: Yeah, which is better than WebX or other things, you know. It’s still is the case that it’s a thing on the server somewhere that you can’t control, and your upload speed might be weak. You should be hard wired by the way, don’t depend on a wireless signal. If you’re in your office do it over lunch and tell your employees to maybe not be on the internet, or not torrent the Lord of the Rings series while you’re doing it. Those are the issues, but I think that you just know …. Now you do have a glass door, and we’ve had some issues where one of us has run up there with a written note on there for whatever reason. That’s the thing, technical issues are gonna come up, no matter how excellent you are at planning this, and to Lauren’s point, you just need to be graceful through it.

Lauren Siler: Exactly. That’s what I’m saying, not that you’re not going to run into some technical hurdles, but it’s not gonna be the end of the world, and it’s not going to be a wasted effort or a waste of time, you can figure out to navigate that, and the audience is going to be more forgiving of that than you are, probably.

Chris Butler: Right.

Mark O’Brien: In terms of the dos and don’ts I would say that the primary ‘do’ is do go and watch our webinars on webinars. About two years ago we did a webinar webinar and it’s very educational and it goes through every single step of what we’d recommend to do, what software to use and how to conduct yourself on webinar day, and a bunch of things to turn on when, it’s very detailed. There’s no way we could cover all of that in something like this. So I would recommend checking that out, it’s free on our site, and it’s called the Webinar Webinar.

Another do I would say is, do a dry-run, do a couple dry-runs, do one just internally just for your staff, get used to the format a little bit before you show up. Another thing to do is to remember no one knows how many people showed up to your webinar.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, that’s a big one.

Mark O’Brien: I did a webinar with somebody once … Start with webinars and an individual showed up, and we did the webinar, and that was great.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, it doesn’t matter because there are so many other benefits to a webinar apart from if that ideal prospect was in attendance. You mentioned at the start of this podcast, we talk about all of the communications points before and after a webinar and how it becomes this great piece of content on the site that you can continue to market after the live event. Those benefits don’t go away even if no one shows up.

Mark O’Brien: Right. So there’s … I think it’s deep topic, and I don’t know if there are a couple of points you want to mention …

Chris Butler: One recommendation that I have … If you’re interested in doing webinars and you haven’t done them before, watch other people’s webinars. If there’s a person in your space that you admire that’s doing webinars, take the time, lose your lunch or whatever it’s going to take to watch their webinars and take notes, because everyone does them differently, and you need to find your own way to do it, but sometimes the best way to find your own way is to look at people who you admire and respect and see how they do it, too.

Lauren Siler: One other small detail to consider when you’re first putting together your webinar is to think … When we talk about the Q & A session to plan ahead for that proactively as well. So, seed questions are totally OK, and advisable in my opinion, because you don’t know what you’re going to get in that Q & A session, but it’s a valuable thing to include. So, make sure that you’ve jotted down a few points and notes or a few questions that you want to address at the end. Just in case you don’t get something that you don’t feel like answering on the fly.

Chris Butler: Right, that’s a great, great point. Alright, well let’s close out and recommend some things for people to take a look at on our site. Who would like to go first for that?

Lauren Siler: Well Mark already stole mine … ‘Cause I was going to say the Webinar Webinar, which I think came out … Was it 2013?

Mark O’Brien: It was ’13?

Lauren Siler: I think it was ’13, but it holds up.

Chris Butler: Yeah, I totally feel the same way.

Lauren Siler: I mean the reason that we’re talking about it on this podcast ’cause we want more content on our own site about this, and it is something that is … That we hear a lot about, and that we want to make sure we have a continued perspective on, but that webinar is really detailed and really informative. It’s called the Webinar Webinar, so go check it out.

Chris Butler: Age doesn’t indicate relevance in every case, and this specific case, it’s all the eternal truths about webinars in that webinar. What about you, Mark?

Mark O’Brien: Right. Well, sticking with our media focus for intros and outros, I’m going to stick with a webinar for this one, and that’s a webinar I just did with Blair. This speaks to the point about committing personality, what I loved about that … Looking back at it and even looking at the opening frame of it, that webinar with Blair is … It’s us being us, and I just like that, it just conveyed how it is. That is exactly what it would be like if he were sitting having breakfast or lunch or a beer or whatever with us. That just felt great, we were both able to be very comfortable and natural, and I think we covered a whole lot of ground in a pretty short amount of time.

Also, it was exciting because it set all kinds of records for us. We had 484 people registered for that between our two groups. The Win Without Pitching group and the Newfangled group, and that was really exciting. It was a great success, and it’s up on the site.

Chris Butler: Yeah, that’s awesome. I also have a webinar to recommend, but it’s one you don’t have to watch, you can read it. I did something also with Blair a bunch of years ago, it was 2013, which we called After Content Marketing. He had emailed me and said, “Hey do you want to do a webinar with about what happens after content marketing in the future?” And I was like, “Well I don’t think that anything happens after content marking, I think it’s just going to be more content marketing.” But it was a cool prompt, and we ended up doing this thing, and it was a lot of fun, and we do a transcript of it on our site. So all you have to do is search for ‘After Content Marketing’ and you can read about six thousand words of what we predicted in 2013 would be the future of content marketing, which I have to say was all correct.

Mark O’Brien: Nice.

Chris Butler: And actually spoke a lot about the concept of speech to text, which that whole thing is on our site as a result of, because I was actually recording as I delivered it and it was transcribed in real time using Dragon Dictation, which was really cool. Check that out. Alright, join us next time, we’re going to go ahead and record that episode right away, which you’ll get in two weeks. We’ll hope to see you back there, and in the meantime find us at, find us on Itunes, give us a rating, that would really help, and we’ll see you next time.

Lauren Siler: Yup, thanks.

Mark O’Brien: Bye.