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Consider This Season 1, Episode 4: Our Predictions for Content Marketing in 2018


Lauren Siler: … Hello and welcome to another episode of Consider This. I’m Lauren Siler. I’m the director of content strategy here at Newfangled.

Holly Fong: And I’m Holly Fong. I’m the director of digital marketing strategy here at Newfangled.

Lauren Siler: Welcome, Holly. This is your first time on the podcast.

Holly Fong: I have to say, you are lucky I came after you bashed me in your first episode.

Lauren Siler: Tough love, tough love. No, I’m so happy you’re here and happy new year, by the way. We’re here back in 2018.

Holly Fong: Yes, I’m excited for what the year holds.

Lauren Siler: I’ve invited Holly to join us on the next few episodes. Today, we’re going to be talking about our predictions for content marketing in 2018. This is an industry that continues to evolve over time. Of course, content marketing has been around for a really long time. We’re going to get into what our thoughts are on how it’s evolved and what’s coming down the pike and how things are changing.

But maybe first before we do, you can give people a sense of what you do here at Newfangled and how that plays into the context of what Newfangled does.

Holly Fong: Yeah, of course. I lead the digital strategy department here at Newfangled. Our department really helps clients with the setup and optimization of their CRM and marketing automation system. After clients are creating content with you and your strategists and your team, what we’re really helping them do is market that content via email marketing. See what people are doing and how people are interacting with that content and how to really nurture them along in the buy cycle.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, our two worlds are pretty closely aligned in that way for sure. Okay, well should we get into our predictions for 2018?

Holly Fong: Let’s just jump right in.

Lauren Siler: Should we just dive in? Where should we begin? I know one place that we had talked about beginning was this concept of voice to text being a lot more prevalent in the upcoming year.

Holly Fong: Yeah. There’s probably two ways to think of that. There’s voice to text as in transcripts, so we could talk about that, or voice activated searches. So, Siri and all of those options.

Lauren Siler: Right. I think on the transcript side, that one is a little more straight forward. That’s something we’ve talked about on the podcast before. Basically, more, more and more, I think the takeaway here is that the classic style of writing, sitting down and writing things out is not the only way that you need to necessarily consider pursuing content marketing. There are other methods by which you can get your thoughts out onto the page and other types of content have become more popular over the years. Things that are not necessarily text based, but are audio based or video based. Things like podcasts and webinars, for instance.

One of the things we talk about all the time is the importance of making sure that you’re getting indexable content onto the site so that you are attracting prospects through organic search because that content is indexable. That’s where transcripts come in. That’s still something I think that will be really important moving forward, especially as people continue to dive into other types of media with their content plans.

Holly Fong: Yeah. I would say that, that’s all true. I don’t think that transcripts are going to give you the same amount of organic search traffic as other articles on your site. But I would say they’re definitely worth doing because it’s putting indexable content on your site that’s going to bring search engines back. It’s also going to make it searchable, but that content isn’t necessarily written in a way that is going to heavily attract search engines, if that makes sense.

Lauren Siler: Yeah. It’s somewhere in the middle, right? They’re not entirely useless. It’s not like they’re having zero influence on organic traffic. So I do think that they’re worth doing if you’re putting the time into creating content outside of simply writing it. I think it’s worth going ahead and sending off for a transcript.

Holly Fong: Definitely, yes.

Lauren Siler: It doesn’t take that much time.

Holly Fong: It’s certainly worth the extra effort, I would say. Percentage-wise, it was interesting. I looked at our stuff for Newfangled. What I did is I compared all of our transcripts on the site to our top 10 blog posts and looked at the difference in traffic there. The transcripts are getting a little over 10,000 visitors, which is great. Some people-

Lauren Siler: Per month?

Holly Fong: No, for the year. So, not a ton but those have also had less time to-

Lauren Siler: Right, because we haven’t been doing transcripts as long as those blog posts-

Holly Fong: Compared to the blog posts.

Lauren Siler: Got it.

Holly Fong: Our blog post is a lot more.

Lauren Siler: Do you have the rate? What are we looking at here?

Holly Fong: If we’re saying 10,000 for the two transcripts or the transcripts of webinars and our podcasts, we’re looking at 270,000 for just our top 10 blog posts.

Lauren Siler: And how much longer have those blog posts been on the site?

Holly Fong: Well, the ones that are in our top 10, most of them have been around for a few years.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, or even several years.

Holly Fong: Yeah, some of them have been around for five to seven years, which makes a lot of sense. It’s not really apples to apples comparison by any means but I don’t think that you can rely solely on transcripts to bring people to your site.

Lauren Siler: I think that’s an important point to underscore here because I meet with a lot of clients who find the alternate methods of content creation to be really attractive because they just take less time and it’s easier for them to talk about their expertise than to write it down. So, they start to lean into a content plan that’s really heavily reliant on those channels. But, they are going to continue to post the transcript and so they’re feeling like okay well as long as we’ve got that indexable content, then we’re fine.

But when I’m designing a content plan for a client, I never cut out the classic at least having some blog activity. Maybe having a white paper or something that’s a text based asset that’s regularly hitting the site. Sort of supplementing the other methods of content creation for that reason. Transcripts are valuable. They are using extra content on the site. For instance, Google’s coming back to the site and they are. It’s indexing new content every time it visits, which is important and transcripts can help you do that.

Holly Fong: Definitely, yeah.

Lauren Siler: But, they’re not optimized for a human reader, the way that a blog post would be.

Holly Fong: Exactly. That’s the reason that they’re probably not going to bring as much organic traffic to your site, is because individuals who do digest that content are probably digesting it another way. You can bring someone to the site showing the podcast. Someone might go to the site and then go download that podcast but they’re not staying on that page very long. Page length is something that Google’s considering when it’s deciding whether it wants to show your listing in the results page.

So, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to have other mediums of content creation. I think it’s a great idea but I also think you need to consider the channels in which you’re promoting it and where you’re expecting to derive that value from.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, that makes sense. Another thing to think about, too is if you have the transcript and you go through the trouble to get the transcript made, you could also take the time to structure that transcript into a more accessible format for a true reader outside of Google.

Holly Fong: Definitely. Or, you could keep it as a transcript on Google and then build off of that transcript and create a separate post that is more optimized for search engines. It’s a lot shorter, which is I think what you were saying.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, exactly. Thanks, Holly.

Holly Fong: I totally disagree with you.

Lauren Siler: Way to break it down for the listeners.

So, we’ve got the transcript side. I think that will continue to be important, particularly as technology evolves and these other types of media become more and more accessible to content creators. What about the other side of this? The voice to text, almost like voice to search functionality? What are your thoughts on that?

Holly Fong: That has directly impacted search results already. The few ways it’s impacted that is when you think about Siri and Alexa and all of those devices, usually people are asking them questions, right? So, the biggest change is that you should be formatting your content to answer questions. You shouldn’t really being going after keywords. You should be going after a direct response to specific questions that individuals might be asking.

Lauren Siler: Let’s break that down a little bit because that’s a question I get asked all the time with regard to keywords, specifically. When you say you shouldn’t be focusing on keywords, you should be focusing on the question, do you mean that the way the keyword is framed in the question is irrelevant?

Holly Fong: I wouldn’t say it’s irrelevant. I don’t think that you should be going after something like content marketing. I think you should be going after something like what will content marketing help me achieve or something. That was a really bad question. I’m sorry.

Lauren Siler: We’ll make sure to list that in the show notes, for those of you who need to go back and refer to that awesome example. I’m just teasing. No, but I hear you. What you’re referring to is the long tail, right? The long tail search. I hear what you’re saying because when clients bring this up to me, they get obsessed with the concept of research and keyword analysis. They’re like, “How do I own,” for the generic term as an example that you threw out content marketing. “How do I go and own that?”

The realistic answer is you’re not going to. That’s okay. You really don’t need to. We shout from the rooftops the importance of articulating a very well refined position in order for your marketing to be most effective and potent. So if you’re following that philosophy, then owning the longer tail keywords is important.

But, we digress a little because you’re talking about framing your content so that it is accessible to a searcher’s query being based around a specific question.

Holly Fong: Correct, yeah. One thing that Google has recently changed and you’ve probably noticed this if you’ve been searching for questions on Google, is adding featured snippets. Those are basically the special snippet thoughts at the top of the search results page. Those really include a summary of the answer that’s extracted from that webpage, plus a link to that page and the title and URL. What’s interesting about those is a lot of times, people think they’re paid but they’re completely free.

Lauren Siler: Well, the way they’re prioritized on the page, it kind of looks like an ad at first if you’re not used to seeing it.

Holly Fong: Totally, yeah. And their conversion rate is out of this world.

Lauren Siler: Is it?

Holly Fong: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know the exact numbers but I think it’s upward-

Lauren Siler: I’ll give you my follow up.

Holly Fong: I think it’s upward of 70%.

Lauren Siler: Nice.

Holly Fong: … Which is pretty good. And like I said, they’re free, which is incredible. Anyone can create content and frame it in a way and go after a snippet, which is pretty cool.

Lauren Siler: We could have an extra episode or even write our own article about this. But briefly, are there the top two or three things that you could do to frame your content so that it might be more likely to be grabbed by Google in a snippet format? What would those things be?

Holly Fong: Yeah. To just name a few, it’s about how you’re answering that question. For example, if it’s a how to question, you should be answering it with a list.

Lauren Siler: A numbered list?

Holly Fong: Yes, a numbered list of steps of how to do something. If it’s a does question, so a question along the lines of does. I’m not going to try to come up with another question.

Lauren Siler: I’m mercilessly ridiculing you here.

Holly Fong: Then, you want to answer that in a paragraph format. And if it is a comparison question, so if you’re comparing two-

Lauren Siler: What’s the difference between this and that.

Holly Fong: Yeah, great question. That was real original. Then, you actually want to give a table.

Lauren Siler: A table?

Holly Fong: Yeah.

Lauren Siler: I’ve never seen a table rendered in those queries for me. That’s interesting.

Holly Fong: Well, you haven’t been asking comparisons.

Lauren Siler: Comparison questions, okay. That’s helpful. So, numbered lists for …

Holly Fong: How to.

Lauren Siler: How to’s. The paragraph form for does questions, and then a table for comparative analysis. That makes sense.

Holly Fong: Yeah and there’s a bunch more, which I think like you said, we can use a whole other episode to go over.

Lauren Siler: Okay, great. This whole voice to text phenomenon I think you’re right, will continue to evolve and grow over time as people become more accustomed to having this technology available to just serve up answers to them.

Now, one caveat I would throw out there is not to go and rush and put all of your content in a list form or go put all of your content in comparative tables and that kind of thing. I think there’s a balance that needs to be achieved here. Again, when you’re thinking about the content that you’re creating, first starting with what topics are going to be most relevant to your personas based on their buy cycle stages. All of that classic education still comes into play here, but every once in a while, there’s going to be a topic that is going to be most optimally framed in the form of a question and structuring the actual format of that webpage so that it’s more accessible to the emerging technology of today would be really important.

Holly Fong: Yes, agreed.

Lauren Siler: All right, so that’s voice to text. I think one of the other things that we talked about was seeing the diversity in media continuing to evolve over time. This was a big focus of our market last quarter, just understanding that more, more and more, people are becoming open to the idea that they can pursue other outlets other than a simple blog post, and that they need to.

We talk a lot about your content needing to not only attract people to your site through indexable search and that’s obviously really important, but the content’s job is also to guide that prospect through their purchasing journey once they arrive at the site. That requires gated content on the site, which can come in many, many, many different formats. A lot of the time, that’s not just the written word. That’s going to be other channels like webinars and videos. I think that, that flexibility in content portfolios is going to continue to grow throughout this year.

One of the things that, one of the channels that we get asked most often about these days is podcasting. It’s become really popular.

Holly Fong: Yeah. I don’t know if you watch the Bachelor, but every contestant on the Bachelor now has their own podcast.

Lauren Siler: Are you serious?

Holly Fong: Yeah. You can listen to their expertise on love any time you want.

Lauren Siler: All of the previous contestants have their own-

Holly Fong: Yes.

Lauren Siler: Oh, that sounds sad.

Holly Fong: So, here we are.

Lauren Siler: Okay, 2018. The year of podcasting. It’s growing in popularity, for sure and it’s by far when I meet with clients for the first time and I’m asking them just to talk to me about internal conversations they’ve had about possibilities with content marketing, podcasting is always the first thing that comes up. It’s typically the first thing that comes up for them. I think it’s just becoming a more accessible medium.

Holly Fong: Yeah, it makes sense too because video takes a lot more production than podcasting in some ways and a lot of people aren’t necessarily great on camera like Lauren. I’m great on camera but Lauren is not good on camera.

Lauren Siler: I don’t have a broadcast journalism degree or anything, you’re right. No, I hear you. It adds a layer of distraction that I think does take some time to get used to. Some people really enjoy it. It goes back to your natural communication style in a lot of ways. A lot of people are performers and they adore a stage. Things like webinars work really well for them or public speaking events work really well or having them on camera in some sort of video format is great for them. But there are a lot of people who they are somewhere between being a full on presenter and somebody who considers themselves really just a writer. I think the middle ground there is podcasting because they can talk about their expertise in a really elegant, natural way.

Holly Fong: Yeah, I would add also that it is more conversational rather than a video, which sometimes you’re presenting in. A podcast is probably a little less intimidating to join and do because you can just have a conversation about a topic whereas a video, you’re worried about what you look like when you’re speaking about that topic.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, but again I think it depends on the personality of the people. I’ve seen some really great videos from our clients, who they’ve popped on camera and they’re just them.

Holly Fong: I’m certainly not saying that podcasting is better than videos or videos are better than podcasts. I’m saying that I think that people have an interest toward podcasting because it’s less intimidating for those reasons.

Lauren Siler: It definitely seems to be more accessible for sure. With this continued interest and growing interest in podcasting as a means to express one’s expertise, one thing that I think will become more relevant as part of the conversation moving forward in 2018 is not just whether to get into podcasting, but how to optimize one’s podcast.

Sort of how content marketing evolved in the same way. First, it was, “Well do I even bother to have a blog?” Now, it’s like, well having a blog is not even a conversation. Everybody understands that they need to be investing in content marketing in some way and blog is typically the first step on that journey. The conversation became, “How do I optimize my content and my blog posts so that they’re easily discoverable online?” I could see that being a similar conversation with podcasting as more and more people get into it.

Holly Fong: Definitely. What’s interesting about podcasting is people probably won’t be searching on Google necessarily for it, right? They’re going to be searching on their device within their podcast app to find that. I don’t know the optimal ways to come up on those searches, honestly.

Lauren Siler: I think it varies too, per platform. The way that descriptions are rendered in iTunes are going to be a little bit different than the way they’re rendered in Stitcher or any other of these other services that you can access your podcast through. It could be just a factor of observing which of the podcast platforms rises through the ranks as the premier one and then following their cues. There are certain ways that you can optimize your podcast episodes in iTunes for instance, that play to certain keywords or the way the title is rendered, et cetera that are different from some of the other sources out there.

Holly Fong: Yeah, that’s interesting. It reminds me of all the search engines back in the day.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, no it’s-

Holly Fong: You had Google and Yahoo and-

Lauren Siler: You remember Dog Pile? Was it Dog Pile?

Holly Fong: I was never searching on Dog Pile.

Lauren Siler: Okay, it was a cute little dog and it wasn’t search, it was fetch. No? You never used Dog Pile? Wow, I wonder if it still exists. Oh, Ask Jeeves, that was a thing.

Holly Fong: Yeah, all of those right? And then, Google took it over and now everyone just follows what Google does.

Lauren Siler: Google’s rules. Google sets the rules for sure. So, we’ll see. The best practices and the best recommendations on that are still up in the air I think.

Holly Fong: Totally.

Lauren Siler: Because, I do think it’s still early. We’re still in that phase of people just learning how to adopt podcasting in the first place but optimizing it is going to quickly become a big part of the conversation.

Holly Fong: Yeah, I think what will also be interesting is that’s a great channel to connect with people but how do you get people back to the website from those podcasting channels that they’re listening to your content on? That will be really big, as well.

Lauren Siler: I wonder though … I don’t have a fully baked opinion on this but I do wonder how important that is going to be moving forward. Just anecdotally for using Newfangled as an example. Newfangled’s been doing content marketing since 2001 I think. We’ve been doing webinars since 2004 and we launched our flagship podcast, Expert Marketing Matters, about a year and a half ago. Anecdotally speaking, I would say that I hear more direct feedback and have more conversations as a result of listeners of that podcast than any of our other more classic channels.

I think that there’s a couple reasons for that. One, it could just be the novelty of it, it’s new. But the other things I that it seems to be stickier. People are siting direct quotes from these podcast episodes back to us.

Holly Fong: Is it your quotes? Your genius quotes?

Lauren Siler: Only mine!

Holly Fong: I think that’s a really interesting point. What I wonder about though, are has anyone found us strictly through the podcast? Or, is it people who know of us and then find our podcast and are using that to nurture them along in that buy cycle?

Lauren Siler: I think it’s primarily the latter. However, there definitely have been people who have discovered us through their own podcasting, the other podcasters that they’ve found. For instance, there’s been more than one individual who’s come to us and they’ve discovered our podcast because they listened to 2Bobs, the podcast with David Baker and Blair Enns. If you go into iTunes and you are on that show’s page, there’s a, “People who listened to this also listened to these other shows,” and our podcast is showing up there. So, they’ve discovered us that way.

That’s still peripherally related because it’s our circle.

Holly Fong: Yeah, they have to be in that world.

Lauren Siler: But again, this is where podcast optimization is going to become more and more important because people are listening to podcasts more and they’re producing them more. I think people are more likely to go and search for podcasts that are relevant to their interests now and will continue to be much more than they have been in the past. That’s where it’s like, how do you make sure that your podcast gets discovered?

Okay, so we should take a quick break. We’ll come back and talk a little bit more about a couple of other predictions we have and then get to some questions. Sound good?

Holly Fong: Sounds good.

You’re listening to Consider This, a podcast designed to unpack common misconceptions of content marketing today. If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to find us on iTunes and give us a positive rating and leave a review.

If you’ve got a content marketing question, you can send it to us via Twitter at ConsiderThisPod, email us at, or submit your question through Facebook. And now, back to the show.


Holly Fong: We’ve been talking a lot about the diversity in media in which you reach individuals. I think it’s also important to talk about the different channels that you can reach people on. For different media, different channels might apply.

Lauren Siler: To promote that various content?

Holly Fong: Exactly, yeah.

Lauren Siler: Got it. What’s an example of that?

Holly Fong: You have Google, right and that’s one we’ve talked about primarily. We’ve also been talking about the podcasting apps and those would be different channels in which you can reach someone but we haven’t dived into social media at all. I think it would be interesting to talk a little bit about social media and the role that it’s going to play here in 2018.

Lauren Siler: The question that I hear a lot about when it comes to social media is, do we need to bother investing in paid social media promotion of the content that we’re producing? Do you have a strong point of view on that?

Holly Fong: I do. I think it depends a little bit on your strategy and the type of leads that you need to generate and how you’re ultimately generating your leads. There are definitely ways that you can get visitors to your site through social media platforms. For Facebook for example, you’re not going to get anyone to your site through Facebook if you don’t pay because they changed their algorithm a while ago so that even if they follow your company, if it’s not getting a lot of social interaction, which most B2B businesses don’t, you’re not going to show up on their timeline ever. So, you have to pay. Now, it’s also really cheap to use Facebook.

Lauren Siler: It is surprisingly so, as I found out this year.

Holly Fong: Super cheap, yeah. What I would also say about Facebook is it’s really great for targeting because you can just upload a list and target to that list, which is not something you can do with Google, let’s say. That being said, I wouldn’t be surprised if in the next few years Facebook just becomes less and less of a player in all of it.

Lauren Siler: Really?

Holly Fong: Yeah. But I do think that especially for non B2B, Facebook can be a great place for advertising. Especially Instagram, now. A lot of people, there’s all kinds of funny memes out there where it’s like, “We just talked about something and then I saw an ad for it on Facebook.”

I don’t think that you should necessarily not consider it. I just think you need to consider about how do we typically interact with our prospects and what channels are they on and can we reach them that way? You’re not always going to reach the same prospects either and that’s something to think about. If you have a list of 5,000 people say, you might be reaching 4,000 of those people through Google search in some way and some of those people through email for example. But then, if you need to get more people to your website, maybe those people are on LinkedIn.

Lauren Siler: Right. It’s about casting the broadest net possible. I actually do want to transition to the question, the questions portion of this episode because one of those questions that we get a lot is, should I be publishing to LinkedIn? I think publishing to LinkedIn and then, do I spend money on LinkedIn?

I advise my clients if they are going through the effort to develop content in the first place, they should absolutely be publishing it on LinkedIn, as well. Specifically, they need to make sure that they’re allowed to post verbatim all of the text that they publish on their site. They can publish that to LinkedIn and they won’t get dinged for duplicate content, which is nice and not true for other types of websites.

Holly, you have a couple of other specific recommendations if you’re considering publishing your content to LinkedIn.

Holly Fong: Yeah. If you are going to publish you’re content to LinkedIn in that way, you do want to make sure that you first post it to your site, rather than post it to LinkedIn first.

Lauren Siler: Yeah the order of operations matters.

Holly Fong: Exactly.

Lauren Siler: And why is that?

Holly Fong: It is because Google will see where it was posted first as the authority, versus if you post it to LinkedIn first, then it’s going to be more likely to link the LinkedIn article earlier in the year than it would be to link your webpage.

Lauren Siler: This is all stemming from the philosophy that your website is still your temple. When it comes to social media strategy … I think we’re in agreement on this but when it comes to your social media strategy, you want to use your social channels to amplify your presence online but ultimately, drive people back to the hub of your website because that should be the engine that is best designed to foster lead development over time.

Holly Fong: Definitely agree with you on that. I think that you can use social media and email and other channels to continue to nurture people but they shouldn’t be your primary source of where all your content is held.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, agreed. And I wouldn’t start there, either. I’ve talked to a couple of prospects who they want to get into content marketing. They’re intimidated by it because it just feels like this really big endeavor. Where they want to begin is say, “Maybe a teeny tiny little social media campaign.” Something like, “I’m just going to publish everything on LinkedIn. I’m going to foster my entire community on LinkedIn and just manage all of my lead development on LinkedIn.” I advise them against that because it goes back to this philosophy of really investing in the website as your lead development hub and then building out the spokes from there of which social media would be one.

Holly Fong: Exactly. Your website is always going to pay more diffidence than any social tool because ultimately, you want to have something that you can maintain and you can keep. You never really know what’s going to happen with any of those social tools.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, that’s true. With the thought of driving people back to the site with your LinkedIn efforts, another tip that you had mentioned was making sure that you’re crosslinking back, that you’re linking back to the site inside of that post, right?

Holly Fong: Yeah, definitely need to link to that post from the post on LinkedIn. You could link to it twice. You could link to it in the beginning of the article if you wanted, saying, “If you want to read the original post, it’s here.” You can link to another page on your site throughout the article or at the end you could also say, “For more insights like this, go here,” and bring them to your website that way.

Lauren Siler: I’ve also found LinkedIn to be a better place to foster conversation about the particular content at hand than say a comments section on the blog.

Holly Fong: Definitely.

Lauren Siler: I think that the comments section on various blogs, it seems to be a more wide open field, like you’re going to have a broader cast of characters who may stumble onto that page and may weigh in with an opinion that may or may not be relevant. But LinkedIn, often times those communities and those groups that are weighing in on that content are a little bit more focused and a little bit more relevant to your circle. So, that’s something to keep in mind.

If your looking for a place to build a community and talk about the content in a classic commenting style, LinkedIn would be the way to go, there.

Holly Fong: Definitely.

Lauren Siler: A lot of these other questions, Holly, we’ve already covered off on. Maybe we can summarize a couple. One was, how effective is a transcription really? The answer there was, worth doing but should not be all of your indexable content. Is that a fair headline?

Holly Fong: Very fair.

Lauren Siler: Okay.

Holly Fong: Nice and short.

Lauren Siler: What are some of the other ones we had here?

Holly Fong: One of them was about how is voice to text changing search engine results? What we had talked about there is, question based answers being one of the biggest ways that it’s changing things. So, really writing your content to answer specific questions and to be more conversational and go after those long tail keywords, rather than going after one keyword.

Lauren Siler: It would be good for us to post an article on the site about that, too.

Holly Fong: You’re looking at me like-

Lauren Siler: Hint, hint. The final one was, should I be getting into podcasting? Yeah, I think it can be really great for a lot of people’s communication styles. It allows them to just naturally express what they already know and get over the hurdle of sitting down and crafting an article of some kind. I think that the barrier to entry there feels a lot lower. But just keep in mind that the optimization conversation is going to continue to be relevant as more and more people get into podcasting. We’re going to need to be looking for ways to differentiate our podcasts from other people who are getting into it because it is growing in popularity.

Holly Fong: Definitely. I think you had compared it earlier in this podcast to blogging and just how popular blogging was when that caught on. I see the exact same thing to your point happening with podcasting. Getting on the early train with that is a good idea.

Lauren Siler: Yeah, for sure. Well, this has been a lot of fun. Thanks, Holly. This has been good.

Holly Fong: Yes. Looking forward to doing it again.

Lauren Siler: All right, sounds good. I guess that’s it for now. Thanks so much for listening. If you guys are enjoying this podcast, we’d love it if you would share it with your colleagues and friends. And, send us your questions. You can send them directly to us as at You can also Tweet your questions at ConsiderThisPod or find us on Facebook. Thanks so much for listening!